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gooood Interview NO.16 introduces Nakamura Hiroshi | Hiroshi Nakamura & NAP. More: Hiroshi Nakamura on gooood.
出品人：向玲 Producer: Xiang Ling
合作编辑：胡佳林 Coorporate Editor: Hu Jialin
编辑团队：陈诺嘉，杨子豪，王丛月，鹿璐， 苏昕，刘秘 Editor:Chen Nuojia, Yang Zihao, Wang Congyue, Lu Lu, Su Xin, Liu Mi
gooood x Hiroshi Nakamura
We realize that most of your latest works are projected (located) in suburban or in forest. Do you choose the site on purpose? And which part of the design you considered the most when you accept a commission?
I prefer project in natural environment to those are not. It is my social responsibility to make people aware of the importance of sustainability by creating buildings that fully express the beauty of the natural sites. Most of my clients came to me because they had seen my previous projects that interact well with the surrounding landscapes. As a result, most of my new projects are in sites of abundant nature contexts.
▼ 中村先生在优美自然环境中的项目案例部分摘选，selected projects with abundant nature contexts
In the book Architecture in Love published in 2007, you mentioned that “explore a new relationship of human and architecture”. Since then, ten years have past. Is there any new idea about this issue that you can share with us?
This is a ubiquitous issue. I have been thinking about this issue in the past 10 years, and of course this will continue in my further study and keep progressing. Comparing with what I understood a decade ago, I focus more on the dynamic relationships inside architecture. People are not static in a building. They would shake their heads, look around, sit or step around. They would experience the architecture in a constant stage of moving. Thus I would start my design with the dynamic relationship between human and architecture in my mind. Ribbon Chapel is a good example of that. When people enter the architecture, they would keep going up, repetitively separating and gathering, and finally meeting each other on the top of the chapel. This dynamic process helps them better experience the architecture. Sayama Lakeside Cemetery Community Hall expresses this relationship as well. The sloping ground of chapel is 1 cm lower than the altar. When people stand up and move towards the altar, they would experience this subtle sloping, which would cause changes in their mood. the visitors emerge the reminiscence of the person buried in this place, going down to meet them for one more time as they are attracted by the forest.
Implanting emotions in architectural designs needs experiencing a delicate process. Could you please introduce some of your design processes, and sharing some exciting parts with us.
以Ribbon Chapel 为例，我在设计的时候会想：今天，一对新人将在这里结成伴侣，合而为一，如何让他们在建筑里更加强烈地感受到这种心情的变化呢？为了回应这一想法，比起设计一座外形独特的建筑，我更加关注建筑使用者的感情。作为主角的新郎和新娘，支撑两人一路走来的家人和朋友，我希望强化他们在婚礼中的体验，让他们产生兴奋、感动等各种各样强烈的情感，这才是设计的目的所在。因此，我尝试去模拟两人的心情。在和员工开会的时候，我们还特意讨论了走在红毯上是什么感觉，会产生怎样的心情变化等等。总的来说，感情的设计是从对行为举止的设计开始的。一般来说，人们认为自己的行动是由于某种感情造成的，但事实有时是相反的，人会在行动中产生情感。医学上也会用行动疗法治疗心理疾病。
Take Ribbon Chapel as example, when I was designing I would imagine the emotional experience of the new couple. I would ask myself that what would they feel as they becoming husband and wife in this special day and how could the architectural space arouse and strengthen their feelings for this sacred moment. In response to this thought, I was more focus on the users’ emotions, rather than simply designing a unique architecture. I want to enhance all the users’ experience in the wedding ceremony including the grooms and brides as the star and their parents and friends whom have been supporting them all the time. The goal of the design is to put strong emotions in the people’s heart, making them excited and touched. Thus I tried to simulate the feelings of the couple and even discussed what emotional changes would occur when they were walking through the virgin road during staff meetings. I implant emotions by designing people’s behaviors in the architecture. Generally, people would take action when they feel something. But sometimes it works in the opposite way. Emotion could be generated by actions, which is why doctors would use behavior therapy to treat some mental diseases.
▼Ribbon Chapel – 新娘在被自然环绕的礼堂之中。Ribbon Chapel – the bride in the wedding hall surrounded by the nature
▼Ribbon Chapel – 新郎新娘扶级而上，最后相会于建筑顶部。Ribbon Chapel – the new couple keep walking upward and meet on the top
Ribbon Chapel is a small architecture with only 80 sqm area. Do you think that emotions could only be revealed in small-scaled architectural spaces? How can emotions be expressed architecturally in larger scales.
There are emotions that only large-scaled architecture could express and I would like to design projects of different scales. However, if we want to make people immerse in a building or have a delicate and intimate experience, it is important to control the size of the related objects to ensure that they are close enough for people to touch. This is one of the most important factors in designing architecture in a phenomenological approach. After years of interaction, emotions could be transmitted into architectures. Even in a large-scaled architecture, this contact is not impossible to create. For example, we could build up a big space by getting small ones together. In one word, I want to create an intimate large-scaled architecture, which could give people a specific sense of force without making them feel anxious or alienated.
The use of materials is very innovative and interesting in your design, like the kaleidoscope entrance tube at Tokyu Plaza and the Borosilicate glass in the Hiroshima House. What efforts have you put in experimenting materiality? Could you share some experiences in developing and using materials?
To me, an architecture is an enclosing environment for people. I pay much attention in its tactile impression, its relationships with users and even the communication with the Nature during my design. Let’s take glass as an instance. This material could reflect and refract light to create various effects, showing different appearances according to the atmospheric changes. There’s a patchwork window composed by glass samples made of different materials in my office. When it is around three o’clock in the afternoon, various shadows would be casted on the floor by the sunlight penetrated through the window. I make the design and calculation on purpose, but the result is always far beyond my expectation, which is the interesting point. We discussed and collaborated with our manufacturers to develop this unique glass, which could not be found in any market. For modern architecture, it is common to choose and use off-the shelf industrial products from the existing catalog. Although I won’t disagree with using this method,, I believe that if you want to create an atmospheric space, it is necessary to develop a special material for the specific people who go there.
▼东急Plaza表参道原宿 – 万花筒一般的入口通道。Tokyu Plaza Omotesando Harajuku – the kaleidoscope entrance tube
▼住宅C – 特意用当地土壤建造的房屋。House C – a building specifically made of local soil
The conception of the Ribbon Chapel is very romantic and it is completed through unique tectonics. How did concepts and tectonics collaborate during the design?
对于Ribbon Chapel来说，构造的难点在螺旋的结构上。其实当时我并不确定是否可以造出这样的建筑，只是觉得如果能做一栋这样的建筑就太有意思了，于是制作了一个模型，而模型竟然立住了。我就想既然模型可以立起来的话那建筑应该也有办法成立吧，便去请教之前合作过的在ARUP工作的柴田先生，结果他在看到设计后马上表示可以建造。只要在四个地方对螺旋进行了连接，就可以保证了结构的稳固。尽管一根螺旋摇摇晃晃很不稳定，但两根结合在一起就不一样了，同时还可以形成环箍效应，防止结构向外散开。向上和向下的螺旋以X形交结在一起，形成了类似支架的结构，可以吸收水平方向的作用力。柴田先生在我设计的形态中找到了构造的意义，并通过实际的结构将其变成了现实。在这个过程中，他会向我提出类似“这里要稍微收拢一些”“这里构造上很坚固再扩大一点也没问题”之类的建议，但是设计的概念并没有改变，只是在弯曲的方式、幅度和位置等方面进行了调整。我们就是通过这种合作方式实现了这个设计。至于在设计的哪个阶段让构造介入，虽然根据情况会有所不同，但先做设计，再做构造往往不会得到一个好的结果。我的设计中有很多像Ribbon Chapel这样，如果不把设计和构造结合起来就无法实现，在初期就开始和构造人员合作的项目。在设计中对形态和构造两方面同时进行考量是最为重要的。
The structure of the spiral is the main difficulty of the Ribbon Chapel’s construction. To be honesty, I have no idea if such a building could be realized at the beginning of the design. With a playful thought of creating a cool architecture, I made a model and unexpectedly found that it could stand. Then I started to think of the possibility of making the design real and went to Mr. Shibata in Arup, who I had collaborated with before, for help. To my surprise, as soon as he saw my design, he asserted that it could be done. He connected the spirals in only four points to ensure the steadiness of the structure. One strip of spiral is unstable, but if we combine the two together, things become different. Hoop effect was used to prevent the spirals from breaking up. The upward and downward spirals combined and formed an X shape, which could act as a brace to absorb the horizontal forces. Mr. Shibata found the constructional value in my design and realized it through practical structure. During this process, he had come up with advisements like shrinking the shape or expanding the curve at particular points due to construction reason. But they were only small changes in way of curving, span and position. The initial concept of the design was maintained and we collaborated to complete the project accordingly. Of course it varies from project to project on when to start working with the structure team. I have done many projects like the Ribbon Chapel project, which design could not be developed without the help of construction and the collaboration with the structure team started in a very early stage. I don’t think it is a good way to consider structure after finishing the design. The most important thing in design is to simultaneously keep concept and construction in mind.
▼由两条螺旋组成的Ribbon Chapel。Ribbon Chapel with the structure of two spirals
▼Ribbon Chapel结构示意。Structure of Ribbon Chapel
Your projects are not only popular in Japan but also around the world, and you have been working on many projects overseas. What is the biggest difference in dealing with Japanese and foreign projects? Do you have anything interesting to share with us?
What interests me the most is not the differences, but to find that there are so many people having the same ideas with me in the world. Though we are different in culture background and living in different environment and climate zones, we all think that there’s something wrong with the modern society and aim to solve the problems with similar thoughts in our minds. When working on projects in Japan, there are always so many constraints that I have to approach my goal by making compromises. It is quite different when dealing with oversea projects. The clients of these projects always have strong desire to pursue their ideals and this is why they come for me from miles away. Recently, I am working on an interesting project in Taiwan, which is a combination of resort hotel and experience studios, aiming to rebuild the relationship between human and the Nature. I have met the client for many times and talked a lot about the design. We talked a lot about ideas and the relationship between human and the Nature. We have the same dream of creating a sustainable architecture that people could live in for generations. Perhaps it is the busy era that makes us thirsty for a peaceful life.
▼东京集合住宅 – 生活与自然相和谐。Dancing Trees, Singing Birds – approach harmony between living and nature
▼东京集合住宅 – 窗户避开树枝设计。Dancing Trees, Singing Birds – the windows are designed according to the trees
Which kind of project you want to challenge the most? Why?
What I want to design the most is art gallery projects. Though I have designed some small galleries before, I still want to make one with the paintings as leading character. In this gallery, people could not only look, but also do meditation and introspection as visiting the works and spaces. I also want to design religious architectures like Zen temples. I want to create a peaceful place for people to think1, like Sayama Lakeside Cemetery Community Hall. People would become calm and modest so that they will carefully think about their dreams.