gooood团队采访世界各地的有趣创意人，欢迎您的推荐和建议。第36期为您奉上的是 Heatherwick studio 创始人Thomas Heatherwick 的访谈，更多关于他们：Heatherwick studio on gooood

gooood team interviews creative from all over the world. Your recommendations and suggestions are welcomed! gooood Interview NO.36 features Thomas Heatherwick, Founder and Design Director of Heatherwick studio. More: Heatherwick studio on gooood

出品人：向玲 | Producer: Xiang Ling
编辑团队：武晨曦，杨子遥，陈诺嘉，石安，伍培燊 | Editor: Wu Chenxi, Yang Ziyao, Chen Nuojia, Shi An, Wu Peishen

Interview
gooood x Thomas Heatherwick

▼Thomas Heatherwick © Raquel Diniz

1.
请简单介绍一下您创立事务所的经历。作为一个实践近30年且屡获殊荣的事务所，Heatherwick经历了哪些重要的时期？您认为是什么支撑着您将事务所发展至如今的规模？
Please share with us your story of founding your own firm after graduating from university. As an award-winning studio with nearly 30 years of practice, what have been some of the most important periods for Heatherwick’s studio?

首先我要说的是，非常荣幸可以接受这次采访并且回答你的问题，因为gooood在中国是如此重要。不久之前，我们才在上海建立了我们在中国的第一个永久工作室，能够和如此多年轻又有才华的建筑师和设计师合作令我感到非常自豪。可以说，中国改变了Heatherwick Studio的历史。

28年前，我刚刚完成大学学业，当时的我并不知道自己应该为谁工作，于是我想，那么我干脆就为自己工作吧。一开始我认为自己的工作就是尽可能地发挥创造力，但随着我在技能方面的学习，我越来越希望可以把身边其他人的创造力带动出来，并且把这些创造力汇聚在一起。后来我有了越来越多的合作者，我们共同设计和建造项目，这对于每个人来说都是一种长期且大规模的学习。

在我完成自己的第一个项目后，我感到建筑世界似乎并没有像我从小到大想象的那样充满工匠精神。我总是试图以“美”的方法和态度去对待建筑。现在人们不愿意用“美”这个字眼，因为它听上去不够酷，好像美是做作而过时的。但在我看来，美是现代的，而更“好”的美则是永恒的、超越时间的。

我觉得我们不能羞于尝试，我们需要找到那个从内在将人们联系起来的答案。“美”并不像大家认为的那样主观。在建筑行业，人们喜欢用“美是主观的”说辞来掩饰不够好的设计。但是对于一个美的地方，几乎所有人都会持相同的意见。不论你是否受过高等教育，有着何种经历，我们每个人都有见证周围世界的经验，在某种程度上，每个人都是建筑专家，因为我们一生都是在建筑和建筑环境中度过。

First, I just want to say that I’m really honored that you’re doing this interview. gooood is important in China and it’s a privilege for me to have a chance to talk with you and to try to answer your questions. China has changed the history of my studio. It’s a special time for me to do this interview because I’m just setting up my first permanent studio in China in Shanghai.

Originally, almost 28 years ago, I was by myself, terrified, as I just finished college and I didn’t know who to work for, so I thought I’ll work for myself. I felt as if my job was to be creative but as I’ve learned or developed this skill, I hope to bring out the creativity in other people around me and bring it together. That’s how I see my role, and I’ve been very lucky to have fantastic collaborators who joined me, commissioning the studio, engineering our projects, and constructing them. It’s this ongoing, massive learning for everybody.

My studio’s background, that perhaps makes us a little bit different is, that the first projects I was doing, I built them myself. For the first projects I made, I had a workshop, and the spirit of craftsmanship that I grew up in and around seemed to me to be missing from the world of architecture. And I’ve tried to always come to architecture with an approach of “beauty”, an interest in beauty. Beauty was very uncool, you couldn’t talk about beauty, beauty was sentimental and old fashioned. But I believe beauty is modern and can also be eternal when it’s good.

Don’t be shy to try and find the answer that connects with people internally. I find beauty is not as subjective as everybody says it is, I think the architecture world says beauty is subjective as a way to protect itself and protect bad solutions. I think we all agree when places are beautiful. We all have values whether you are highly educated or someone who has worked without that high education, we are all experienced at witnessing the world around us. We all are experts in a way at buildings, because we’ve lived in and around them all our lives.

▼ Heatherwick Studio部分项目
Selected projects of Heatherwick Studio（more: Heatherwick Studio on gooood)

2.
请谈谈事务所的工作方式，以及您通常如何度过一个普通的工作日？
Please tell us about the way your team works and how you usually spend an ordinary working day?

我的家距离工作室只有5分钟的步行距离。每天我都会和工作室里不同的团队一起讨论设计、原型和实验，在一种快乐的氛围中反思我们正在做的不同事情。从某种程度上说，我的工作就是帮助自己与合作伙伴开展正确的对话。Heatherwick Studio就像是一个合作和共同创造的中心，一切都变得比最初更加清晰和明确。

I live 5 minutes walk from my studio. I work with all the different teams and look at the prototypes and experiments in the workshop, we sit and discuss them. The main thing that we do is talk together a lot, we will laugh together and reflect on the different things that we’re working on. In a way, my job is to help us to have the right conversations with ourselves and with our partners. The studio is like a hub of collaboration and co-creation, that has become clearer than ever.

▼Heatherwick Studio伦敦办公室，Heatherwick’s design studio and workshop in Central London © Heatherwick Studio

3.
从新加坡的Learning Hub、EDEN公寓楼，到近两年成为网络打卡地的Vessel和1000 Trees等项目，Heatherwick的许多建筑不仅外形震撼，还带给人一种很强的体验感，尤其是在垂直方向上。您如何看待奇观式的建筑与人的体验之间的关系？您认为建筑本身的“物理性”和它所创造的人的“身体性”的感受有着怎样的关系？
Heatherwick’s studio has designed numerous projects that are both striking in appearance and experience, especially in a vertical sense. How do you see the relationship between the physicality of a spectacle architecture and the experience it brings to the users?

Heatherwick的实践一直立足城市尺度，同时我们也尝试在任何尺度下都忠于我们的创新理念，那就是塑造“与人类情感产生连接”的项目，不论是桥梁、歌剧院或是谷歌总部，我们一直在努力“发明”新的东西。

在我成长的过程中，我经常感到建筑和设计还停留在一个很局限的层面。好像每个建筑师都必须有自己的风格，并且要把这种风格应用在每一个项目上。这对我来说是一种近乎“无礼”的行为，仿佛一切就只关乎建筑师的自我。我感兴趣的是某个地方的“自我”。我的工作是去放大一个地方的个性，最好是能为它发明一些新的东西。我所感兴趣的人，也是那些拥有新的创意和想法，懂得改变、适应和调整的人——事实上并没有多少建筑师、设计师或艺术家能够真正做到这一点。就像是在大自然中，我们会感兴趣于生物的多样性一样，在城市中，建筑的多样性也是非常重要的，虽然它们现在已经变得无聊且缺乏人情味。

We have been working at city scale as well as trying to stay true to ideas at whatever scale. So, my passion is projects that connect with the human emotion, whether that’s a bridge or an opera house, the headquarters for Google, we are always trying to invent a new project.

When I was growing up, I felt architecture and design was always stuck. Each architect had one style, and they did that one style to every project. It almost felt rude to me because it’s like then it’s all just about the ego of the creator. I suppose, I’m more interested in the ego of the place, your job being to amplify the specialness of a place, and hopefully the best way is to try to invent something new for that place. There are not many architects, designers or artists who do that, and those are the ones who interest me more, those who develop and invent new ideas. They change, adapt and adjust. Just like in nature, we are interested and understand the importance of biodiversity. Now, it feels important that we have architectural diversity in cities, because they have become so boring and inhuman.

▼Heatherwick Studio为曼哈顿Hudson Yards打造的公共地标“Vessel”，通过16层高的“阶梯井”鼓励人们参与其中，进行各式各样的活动。Designed by Heatherwick studio, Vessel is the central feature of the main public square in the Hudson Yards development. It is conceived as a social encounter which encourages activity and participation with its 16-storey circular climbing frame.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project）© Heatherwick Studio © Getty Images ©Michael Moran for Related-Oxford

▼位于纽约的Little Island水上公园，承载着哈德逊河上的3个表演场所，通过雕塑般的花槽被支撑在水面上。Little Island at Pier55 is a new park and performance space situated in the Hudson River. The concept developed from the hundreds of wooden piles which have peppered the waterfront since the collapse of the original pier.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project） © Timothy Schenck © Michael Grimm Photography

4.
Heatherwick的许多项目同时呈现出了科技感和自然感，这是如何实现的？您认为未来城市中的自然与建筑应该是怎样的关系？
What is your method to make technology and nature integrated in a project? How do you think architecture should connect with nature in a city of future?

目前已经有很多研究亲生物性（Biophilia）和理解人类对复杂性的需求的科学，其中有一个我非常相信的理论叫注意力恢复理论（ART），是由Rachel和Stephen Kaplan提出的。它表明如果一个人能够每2小时观察1.5分钟的大自然，他们的注意力会变得更好。亲生物性已经被证明与我们的深层人性有着本质的关联，它不仅仅关于绿色植物，还关于人类如何贴近复杂的自然世界。在建筑设计中，我也会更倾向于做一些具有多层次参与性的项目，它们不一定是你喜欢的，但足以使你驻足观看并感受到连接。一个建筑师很难做出让每个人都会持续喜爱的东西，但可以做得足够丰富和包容，并且有助于增加人的智识和体验，这也是Heatherwick Studio在不断尝试去做的事情。

There is more science now to Biophilia and understanding the human need for complexity, there is a theory called Attention Restoration Theory (ART), which shows how people’s concentration becomes much better if they can look into nature once every 2 hours for approximately 1.5 minutes,. Rachel and Stephen Kaplan developed this theory, and I really believe in it. Biophilia has been shown to be really about our deep humanness. It’s not just about green plants, it’s about access to the natural world because it has complexity. If we just keep building boxes, there is no complexity that you can look at. In my work, I’m trying to make projects that have multiple levels of engagement you can look at. You don’t have to like it, but it is still enough to connect and look. You can’t make things that everybody will always like forever more, but you can make projects that are generous, and my hope is that my studios projects, in what we try to do, is to make projects that are generous to people and add to their intelligence.

▼Eden是Heatherwick Studio建成的第一座公寓建筑。设计对传统公寓楼的方形体块进行了拆分，释放出位于中央的心脏空间，为每间公寓赋予了开阔的热带花园空间。Eden is Heatherwick Studio’s first completed residential building. The traditional apartment plan is pulled apart, freeing up a central heart space and allowing a tropical garden to cascade from all inhabitable sides.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project） © Hufton+Crow

5.
蔡茨非洲当代艺术博物馆是一个筒仓改造项目，通过切割的方式将老建筑的剖面呈现在人们面前，形成十分独特的中庭空间。这样大胆的设计概念是如何产生的？
The building of Zeitz MOCAA is transformed from a historic silo complex, in which the original concrete tubes were carved away to create a spectacular atrium. How did this bold concept come about?

我很高兴你问了我关于这个项目的问题，因为这是我最喜欢的项目之一。原本这是一个要被拆除的旧粮仓——拆掉旧事物，再建造一个闪闪发亮的新事物总是更容易的，我相信适时地抛却过去能够帮助你在社会中更好地愈合。但即便是糟糕的历史，我想也不应该那样直接地摧毁掉一切，比起埋葬过去，我更希望带着过去继续前进。

人们认为的迷人建筑通常都有着令人惊讶的外观。在伦敦，我们有小黄瓜、碎片大厦和各种各样的塔楼。当我们想到建筑时，我们想到的总是它的外观，却并不常想到它内部的体验。在做这个项目的时候，问题之一就是如何吸引当地人并鼓励他们走进去，因为他们中有许多人从来没有去过任何博物馆，并且会认为博物馆是为那些研究艺术或者类似领域的人准备的。所以我的想法是打造一个令人难忘的内部空间，而不是去改造外观或者推倒重建。

I’m so happy that you chose to ask me questions on this project, because it’s one of my favorite projects. I feel very lucky to have had the chance to work on this. There was this old grain silo that was going to be demolished. It’s easy to demolish old things and make new, shiny things, but then you throw away history, even if it is terrible history. I believe that you heal better in society if you also accept that and move on. You don’t just destroy everything from the past, because that feels like you’re burying it rather than working with it.

Often buildings are considered glamorous because they have amazing facades, in London, we have the Gherkin, the Shard, both are amazing towers. When we think of architecture, we always think of the outside, but when you think of really memorable interiors of modern buildings, there’s not so many that you can think of, because we got so used to it being about the shape on the outside. We had the problem of how to attract the local people, many of which have never been to any museum before. My worry was the front door, “how do you encourage somebody to walk in?” They think museums are for people who studied art or studied something similar. Of course, if you want to see a museum, you have to go inside. Then I trusted that curiosity, we all have curiosity. Then you don’t feel embarrassed because you’re inside already. This idea of making a very memorable inside, rather than trying to transform the outside or knock it down made the building fully interesting.

▼蔡茨非洲当代艺术博物馆是开普敦的一个重要的新文化机构，位于V&A水岸的历史粮仓内。The Zeitz Museum of Contemporary Art Africa is a major new cultural institution in Cape Town, housed inside the converted historic grain silo at the V&A Waterfront.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project） © Iwan Baan

我觉得有时候能去做一些让人感叹“噢！这是怎么做到的？”这样的事情是很重要的。蔡茨博物馆项目带来的挑战让工程师们兴奋不已：既要确保建筑没有结构梁一类的东西，又要让结构发挥最佳性能。它推动了有趣的工程解决方案、惊人的工艺以及一个充满力量、能够将整个项目统一起来的故事。我非常怀念这段经历，距离我上次见到它已经过去了好几年。同时我希望有机会你也可以亲眼去看看这个项目。

I also believe sometimes it’s important to do something where people will say, “Oh! how did you do that?” There was an engineering challenge that made it exciting for the engineers to work on, to ensure the building did not have big beams and things, but to let the structure work best. It drives in interesting engineering solutions, amazing craftsmanship, and a story that is powerful to pull a building project together. I hope you get to see it one day. I’m missing it. We’ve been here in the UK, having not seen it for a few years.

▼“从一粒玉米中窥见世界”，设计保留并彰显了建筑的原始结构特征，原有的混凝土管被凿开，创造出壮观的中庭。The design preserves and celebrates the structure’s industrial heritage. The original concrete tubes are carved away to create a spectacular atrium and house international and touring exhibitions. © Iwan Baan

▼剖面图，section of the museum © Heatherwick Studio

▼首层平面图，ground floor plan © Heatherwick Studio

构成这座建筑的混凝土管原本是很不适合用来展示艺术品的，这一点我无法反驳，因为的确没有几座画廊会使用管状墙。如果展览始终需要去迁就管状的空间，博物馆就无法实现更长远的运营和发展。毕竟，非洲的博物馆需要自己去讲述自己的故事，而不是总让世界上的其他地方去帮它讲述。但我的想法是，不能失去既有的“管道”，因为它们本身是非常有趣的。后来我想到，是否可以在里面开辟一个中庭？于是我们试着在内部切割出一个正方形的空间，然后又划出了一个球形的中庭（听起来有点像做手术）。这个想法来自于建筑原始的功能——存放玉米，如果说一粒玉米是微不足道的，那么一个玉米粒形的巨大空间是否能够闻名于世？

我们对一粒玉米进行了数字扫描，得到了它的准确形状，然后在电脑上放大到10层楼的高度。后来我们又意识到，如果我们基于这个形状把管道切开，将会产生非常惊人的效果。一位英国诗人曾说“从一粒沙子中窥见世界”，在这座博物馆，即是“从一粒玉米中窥见世界”。

But then I was told that the concrete tubes that make the building are terrible for showing art, so they were going to be “non-tubular” galleries. That was also because Africa never had a major contemporary African art museum before, so it had never told its own story. The rest of the world was always telling African stories for Africa. It actually needed to have galleries that was square so it could curate shows that can then travel to other cities in the world, curated by Africa. I couldn’t argue with that, because I realized not many other art galleries have tubular walls. If the shows are always designed for tubular galleries, it’s never going to work for its bigger mission. We didn’t want to lose the tubes because they are interesting. Then I thought, could we cut an atrium inside it? We tried to cut a square atrium, and also a sphere one（it was a bit clinical). The building had stored trillions and trillions of tons of corn for 90 years. In a way, it was a humorous thought that one grain of corn is so insignificant, could we make one piece world-famous?

We got one grain of corn and we scanned it digitally, so we got the exact shape, enlarged it on our computers to be ten stories high, and realized if we cut through the tubes, the intersection of those two things would do something quite amazing. There’s an expression that a British poet said, “to see the world in a grain of sand”. It felt like to see the whole world through one grain of corn was powerful.

6.
纽约的Lantern House和蔡茨非洲当代艺术博物馆在外观上似乎有许多相似之处，它们在设计上有何种关联？
Lantern House and Zeitz MOCAA are two functionally different projects, but they seem to have a similarity in both structure and material. How are these two buildings related to each other in terms of architectural design?

Lantern House在某种程度上可以说是蔡茨博物馆的“姐妹”，但它是一个酒店。我们被要求在纽约的切尔西去做两座包含270间公寓的塔楼。我们从蔡茨的建筑中汲取了一些经验，并将它们发展成一种非常复杂和高性能的窗户系统，可以在使用砖块建造的大型住宅建筑中发挥理想的成本效益。纽约有着强大的网格，但我们希望建筑里的人从窗户向外望时，看到的并不总是方方正正的城市。所以Lantern House是我们能基于纽约网格所能做出的最“不方正”的建筑。它和蔡茨位于地球上两个截然不同的地方，但都包含着一个同样的想法，就是让建筑不再那么“二维”。

In a way they are brother and sister, but one is a museum with a hotel on top, and the other is a residential building . In New York, there is an industrial district that was Chelsea, where the markets and the meat packing was happening. We were asked to make two towers with 270 apartments. The grid of New York is so strong. We took some of the lessons we learned on the windows from South Africa, which were done in a very basic way and developed them into a very sophisticated, high performing window system that could work and be cost-effective to make a large residential project using brick. They’re on very different parts of the planet and a different typology. The consistent interest is how to make projects be less two dimensional and give it a reason. In New York, the grid is so strong, we wanted people to be able to look out their window and see diagonally and not just always square upon square. So it was the most “unsquared” we could make a square building in a way, but it was definitely taking inspiration from the windows at Zeitz MOCAA. But there are other ideas in there, too.

▼位于纽约切尔西的“灯笼屋”住宅项目，对当地的特色仓库建筑风格进行了重塑。Lantern House is a new residential project in Chelsea, New York, offering a reinvention of the area’s characteristic warehouse building style

7.
可变性和适应性是Heatherwick一直以来都在探索的话题，您认为这一理念未来在建筑方面可以有怎样的发展？Variability and adaptability are topics that Heatherwick has been exploring for a long time. How do you think the concept of variability can be developed in architecture in the future?

我们和福斯特合作的上海外滩金融中心拥有可以移动的外墙，由此产生变化的视觉效果和透明度。我们从中国的其他剧院中吸取了经验，并且试图开发出一种全新的语言，使它能够同时尊重河流和公共广场，并且保持开放。与此同时，一切都在变得极度数字化，我们希望建造一座能够凸显出物理力量甚至于超物理力量的建筑。它可以以一种令人意想不到的方式移动，并且与光线产生作用。

The Shanghai Bund Finance Centre, in which we collaborated with Foster and Partners has the facade that moves round to produce visual effects and levels of opacity. We took our learnings from Chinese theaters in history which were raised up, but trying to develop a new language that also respected the river and the public square and made a building that could open to the river, or it could open to the square. Also, everything has become crazily digital, it feels like the power of the physical, the hyperphysical is stronger than ever. That’s what led us to make a building where it physically moved in a way that people don’t expect, but has a serious purpose and plays with the light as well.

▼上海外滩中心拥有可移动的外墙，随着各个层面的旋转交叠，建筑外貌展现出不同的透明度和视觉效果。The façade of the Shanghai Bund Finance Centre is a veil that rotates with the tassels overlapping and producing different visual effects and levels of opacity.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project）

我们还和IM Motors汽车公司开发了“Airo”，一款可以在移动的过程中净化空气的汽车。这款车即将投入生产，预计将有100万辆。我非常荣幸可以有机会做一些真正“移动的建筑”，我将这款汽车构想为一个共享的房间，你可以在里面和朋友一起聚餐或者听音乐，就像在飞机商务舱里一样。车里的四个座位都可以放平，此外还配置了双开门。我一直觉得汽车可以比现在拥有更多的功能，来自中国的IM Motors实现了这个想法——很难想象有哪家英国汽车制造商能够真正将它生产出来。

We are also working on a new car with IM Motors, that cleans the air as it moves around, it’s going into production, 1 million of them will be made. I feel incredibly honored to have the chance to work on something which is really mobile architecture. We are also considering the car as a room for many people. I think it’s strange that a car can’t be more useful, used as a room to have a meeting in, to eat food with your friends, to watch or listen to something in and used just like business class seats on an airplane. The car has four seats where you can all sit together. The seats can collapse, so you can rest or just be together. Then it has double doors that open, so it’s really like a little piece of architecture. I can’t imagine any British car manufacturer ever making that.

▼“Airo”全电动汽车，展示了Heatherwick Studio在可变性和可持续性方面的长期探索。Airo, a fully electric vehicle with autonomous and driver-controlled modes, demonstrates Heatherwick Studio’s long-term exploration of variability and sustainability © Heatherwick Studio

8.
您在7月6日的TED演讲中提到，人们越来越多地被毫无特色的建筑所包围，犹如生存在一种“无聊的流行病”中。您认为这背后的原因是什么？作为一个建筑师，您认为应当如何创造真正与人连接、而不是没有灵魂和缺乏人情味的建筑和场所？
In your speaking at TED on July 6, you mentioned that people are increasingly surrounded by characterless buildings, and are living though an “epidemic of boringness”. What do you think is the reason behind it? As an architect, how do you find the solution to create buildings and places that can really connect to people instead of becoming soulless and inhuman products?

▼Thomas Heatherwick的TED演讲：我们为什么需要让建筑从根本上变得人性化？
Thomas Heatherwick’s TED Talk: Why The Planet Needs Buildings To Be Radically More Human © TED

我感到全世界都没有足够认真地去思考如何让城市变得人性化并且与我们产生联结。我们认为实用的东西实际上往往扼杀了使其自身可持续发展所必须的人性化品质。我们已经丧失了那种创造出有想法、有幽默感和有个性的场所的信心。现在需要去解决的问题，反而是如何创造一个能够直接连接到你的记忆的场所，比如说，它会让你记起自己12岁时的生活：“哦，没错，我当时就是这么去上学的。”我认为我们需要创造更多在建筑中发生的故事和文化记忆，而不只限于那些重复、乏味又单调的场景。

建筑被称为是一种艺术，但在世界上的许多地方的许多建筑中，你几乎已经感觉不到艺术性。我希望通过这次演讲来说明，从经济上看，制造那些重复的、没有灵魂的场所虽然花费更少，却并不是一个明智的选择。如果我们还把建筑当做一门艺术，那么我们就需要更有对待艺术的态度。问题在于，我们在说“建筑学”和“艺术”时的心态和思维倾向是不同的。

It feels that the world is not taking humanising our cities, making them engage us seriously enough. The things that we think are practical, are often actually killing the human quality necessary to make them sustainable. We’ve lost confidence to make places that have ideas, humor and personality. I think the issue is, how do you make places that can connect to you when you are 12 years old, which would make you think: “Oh yeah, right, I remember that’s where I went to school.” I think we need more of our cultural stories of our lives in the buildings, instead of neutral repetitive, sterile, monotonous places.

Architecture is known as an art, but I think it has become very unartistic in many parts of the world, in many buildings. I hope that my talk showed that economically it is not good business to make repetitive, soulless places that are a little bit cheaper. And if we think that architecture is an art, then we need to be more artistic. The problem is that there is a different mindset when it’s called architecture than when it’s called art.

▼新加坡南洋理工大学学习中心。圆形的辅导室堆积成群的塔楼，通向一个共享的中央中庭。社区和娱乐活动在上层和屋顶进行。The Learning Hub for Nanyang Technological University. Rounded tutorial rooms stacked into clustered towers open onto a shared central atrium. Community and recreational activities take place on the upper levels and rooftops.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project）

什么是“建筑的”（architectural）？它的意思到底是什么？如果我们回顾一下历史，就会发现建筑里包含的更多是艺术。回顾希腊或者中国的古建筑，你会看到令人惊讶的细节和特征，就像是创作者在他们的作品上留下自己的指印。但现在，我们有了玻璃和铝做的建筑，有了硅密封剂，这种印记却彻底消失了。我想说的是，建筑的可持续性并不只是体现在用水量有多少，或者隔热性能有多好，真正使建筑长久延续下去的是情感上的可持续。正如我在演讲中所说，建筑工业产生的温室气体和对地球危机的影响要比航空工业等大家热衷于讨论的事情多得多，可我们却很少谈到如何通过创造建筑来连接人类的想象力，只因为我们生活在一个人工智能迅速发展的时代，我们在意的更多是未来更多琐碎的工作将会由机器和机器人来完成。

What is architectural? What does that even mean? If we look back in history, buildings had a lot more art in them. You go back to Greek buildings or ancient Chinese buildings, there was amazing detail and character. It’s like the thumb print of the people who made it, leaving their interesting marks. But now with glass and aluminum buildings, with silicon sealants, there is no mark. They are stripped back, it’s like all of its personality has been ripped away. It is the emotional sustainability that really makes buildings last. And that the impact, as you saw in my talk of the construction industry on greenhouse gases and planetary crisis is so much more than the impact of the aviation industry and other things that everybody talks about. They don’t talk about making places that connect with human imagination, as we are living in a time where artificial intelligence is growing, and many of the more menial jobs will increasingly be able to be done by machines and robots.

▼英国利兹Maggie’s疗养中心，建筑中只选用了天然可持续的材料，并让成千上万株植物环绕在建筑周围，这样的环境将有助于患者在治疗过程中获得希望和毅力。Maggie’s Leeds. By only using natural, sustainable materials and immersing the building in thousands of plants, there was a chance for us to make an extraordinary environment capable of inspiring visitors with hope and perseverance during their difficult health journeys.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project） © Hufton+Crow

人类的想象力和创造力是我们所拥有的最后的东西，我们必须去创造一些会不断成长的、能够滋养和彰显我们的想象力的地方，唯有如此我们才能感觉自己活着。这并非某种奢侈，它甚至是维持我们的心理健康所必须的。就拿上海的1000 Trees项目来说，我们在这个项目中引入了大量的自然元素，的确，它们生产了氧气并带走了碳，但我们首要的任务是，将一座庞大的建筑人性化，创造多样性，创造兴趣，创造运动和光影，这是那些单调的硬质覆层材料做不到的。巨大的铝板、玻璃和混凝土板并不能带来这种程度的参与。

The human imagination and creativity are the very last thing that we have. We must make places that grow and nurture and celebrate that imagination, and that’s what makes us feel alive. And it’s not a luxury. I think we’ve learned that it is actually essential for true mental health. I’ve been using, as you’ve seen in Shanghai, large amounts of nature in our projects. We opened the first half of the 1000 Trees project that uses trees and plants. Yes, they do create oxygen, they take carbon out of the air, but most of all, the real reason, our number-one-priority is because it humanizes a very large building and creates diversity, creates interest, creates movement, and light and shadow, which hard cladding materials don’t do. Huge bits of aluminum and glass, and big bits of concrete don’t offer such engagement.

▼上海1000 Trees商业综合体。该项目由数百根立柱组成，上方覆满树木，成为城市中的一块包含丰富体验的特殊地形。Designed by Heatherwick Studio for the developer Tian An China, 1000 Trees is conceived not only as a building but as a piece of topography and takes the form of two tree-covered mountains, populated by hundreds of columns.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project） © Qingyan Zhu

9.
Heatherwick将业务拓展到中国的契机是什么?在迄今为止的中国项目中令您印象最深的是哪一个？在中国做项目带给您的感受如何？未来在中国有哪些实践计划？
What was the opportunity for Heatherwick’s studio to expand its business into China? Which of Heatherwick’s projects in China has impressed you the most? How has it been for you to engage with these projects? Do you have any future plans for your practice in China?

我们在中国已经有很多项目，我非常喜欢和想念在中国工作的日子，那是一段无比令人兴奋的时光。在我从伦敦毕业的时候，我眼中的中国是那么遥远和充满异国情调，我从没想过有一天自己会有机会在中国建造这些项目。

在城镇与城市的重建上，中国展现出了其领先地位，以及令人难以置信的想象力和雄心。这也是我认为西方如今所缺少的，我们陷入了关于如何建造城市的旧思维方式。我们认为的现代，实际上已经是一个世纪以前的事物了，而且我们往往忽略了要去真正尊重建筑物的使用者。欧美目前大概已经形成一种观念，即认为建筑是一门凌驾于所有其他艺术之上的艺术，并且建筑师一定比公众更加了解建筑。几年前在英国甚至有一场辩论，在针对公众的意见是否重要这一问题上，竟然有一半的人认为公众的意见并不重要，这着实让我震惊，对我来说，做出让公众接纳和尊重的作品是最令人兴奋的。这让我想到中国的客户，他们应该是我遇到过的心态最开放的客户，他们会真正为使用者去考虑。他们不会只是说：“给我看看你在其他地方做的项目。”他们要求我“为这个地方创造一些新的东西。”这些东西无关于建筑历史，而是真正为使用者服务。

中国让我感受到更大的开放性，更大的创造力，更大的野心和需求。我确信中国可以在城市的人性化方面引领世界。我认为中国拥有世界其他地方所没有的自信，这种自信会为城市与城镇带来个性与趣味，带来真正的艺术创造力和富含情感的智慧。或许你们中的一些有才华的读者会在未来加入我们在上海的团队，和我们一同参与中国正在进行的人性化的革命。

We’ve got a number of projects in China, and I adore working in China. I miss China so much. It has been a very exciting time working and developing projects here. My studio started 28 years ago in London when I graduated. And I never dreamed I would have the chance to be building projects like we are now and particularly working in China. It seemed so exotic and so far away.

China is leading on really re-building its towns and cities. But what I find so exciting is it’s doing it with incredible imagination and ambition. I think that the west has lost a lot of its ambition and also has got stuck in old ways of thinking about how you make the architecture of our towns and cities. We think it’s modern, but it’s actually a century old and often forgets to really respect the users of buildings. I think architecture got into a mindset in Europe and North America that it was the art above all other arts, and that it knew better than the public. There was even a debate in the UK a few years ago where there were lots of architects debating whether the opinion of the public mattered, and half of the room said the opinion of the public didn’t matter, which was shocking to me. For me, the exciting thing is how do you design to ensure people to respect the buildings, spaces and objects we make. I’ve found the clients in China, the most open clients I’ve ever had who think about the user. They’re not just saying, “give me what you do somewhere else”. They say, “give me something unique for here” that will work for the users rather than something that is about the history of architecture.

I have great hope, particularly in China, because I can feel there is a greater openness, greater creativity, greater ambition and greater need. I think that China has the confidence that not many other places in the world have to give humor and personality and real artistic creativity and emotional intelligence to the places which others don’t. That’s why I hope that some of your talented readers might even come and join our team in Shanghai and help with this humanising revolution that’s happening.

▼2010年上海世博会英国馆，是Heatherwick Studio在中国完成的第一个项目。这个被称为“种子大教堂”的结构由66,000根丙烯酸棒组成，创造了一个闪亮的蒲公英般的表面。 UK Pavilion designed by Heatherwick Studio for the Shanghai World Expo in 2010. The structure known as the Seed Cathedral was formed of 66,000 acrylic rods which created a shimmering dandelion-like surface. © Iwan Baan © Hufton + Crow (bottom left)

2010年，我完成了在中国的第一个项目：上海世博会英国馆。对于这座建筑，英国政府表现得有些紧张：为什么我们要做一个毛茸茸的建筑？为什么它要有100万颗种子？为什么它是世博会上最小的展馆之一？为什么我们的预算只有其他西方国家的一半？但令他们惊讶的是，英国馆赢得了世博会国际场馆的最高奖项，我们收获了观众如此巨大的兴趣和欢迎。这也让英国政府看到，当一座建筑具有足够的包容性和独特性，而不是局限于“成为一座建筑”的时候，就会自然地产生和激发参与。

From the Seed Cathedral in Shanghai, which was my first project in China, and the British government were very nervous as to why the UK was building a hairy building? Why did it have 1 million seeds? Why was it one of the smallest pavilions at the EXPO and we had half the budget of the other western nations? But then to their amazement, it won the top prize at the EXPO for the international pavilions. And we had such overwhelming interest from the audience. That showed the British government, the engagement that can exist when something is more generous and more autistic, rather than trying to be architectural.

10.
Heatherwick在今年赢得了海南省演艺中心的设计竞赛，这也是事务所的首个歌剧院项目。方案介绍中提到它的设计灵感源于火山景观，请向我们介绍一下这个项目有趣的地方。
Heatherwick won the competition to design Hainan Performing Arts Centre, which will be your first opera house project. Can you tell us anything interesting about this project?

海南大剧院是一个大规模的表演艺术中心，包含音乐厅、歌剧院和多功能厅。此外，它的另一个目的是成为社区空间。目前我不能透露太多关于这个项目的信息，但我相信它将成为海南的一处受欢迎的目的地，使人们聚集在一起，并且免受天气因素的影响。

现在世界上有许多城市都在以建造歌剧院为形式来塑造主要的公共空间，比如伦敦的南岸艺术中心，它为居民提供了一个可以免费游玩一整天的场所，这种文化与日常生活的融合也是我十分感兴趣的部分。在我看来，文化中心所关乎的不仅仅是艺术，更是你的完整生活，我们生活的方式就是文化本身。

Hainan Performing Arts Centre is a very large performing arts center with a concert hall, opera house and multi-function hall. But it’s also got a job to be a community space. It’s next to the river. I can’t tell you a lot more about it at the moment, but my team and I are working on how we can make somewhere that will be a hangout space for Hainan that brings people together, but also protects people from the elements and the weather.

It feels to me that at the excuse of creating an opera house it’s a way to make a major public space. In London, The South Bank Center is a performing arts center that has acted as an amazing resource for Londoners, a public space where you can just go in and spend all day. You don’t have to have a ticket to go to anything. I’m really interested in providing a space that you can meet each other and not see culture as a separate thing from your everyday life. To me, the way we live our lives is culture. A cultural center is about your whole life, not just arts. Mixing the arts and making opera and concert hall performances as something that not only privileged people do and go to, makes things feel really accessible.

▼海南省演艺中心是Heatherwick Studio设计的首个歌剧院或音乐场所。建筑主体计划于2022年底动工。Hainan Performing Arts Centre will be the first opera house or music venue designed by Heatherwick Studio. Construction of the main building is scheduled to begin in end of 2022.（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project） © Heatherwick Studio

11.
如今世界复杂的发展形势对Heatherwick的设计愿景产生了怎样的影响？未来有哪些目标、计划以及希望拓展的领域？
As the world situation seems to become turbulent and unpredictable, do you think it may have an influence on Heatherwick’s design vision? Do you have any near-term goals or any fields that you expect to involve in the future?

建筑是如此复杂，因为它需要你从一个宏大的战略角度去考虑一系列事情，包括非常多的物理因素。长期以来建筑都被视为最具智慧的艺术，而我认为它不仅是富有智慧的，更是超越物质的。我感兴趣于人从身体体验中获得的情绪，当我在设计的时候也会试图把自己作为一种数据来进行调整。我们既需要进行智力上的对话，也需要真实的情感上的对话。我在努力成为一个理性的人，但同时我也想成为真正感性的人，因为人类的情感是我们创造力的根源，是我们的魔法的根源。然而，建筑学经常会拒绝感性，用相当枯燥的方式去处理复杂性和法律意义上的问题。建筑学是如此庞大，我们习惯通过建筑来彰显我们的“聪明”，却忽略了用“感受”去加以平衡。

另一方面，我们需要去学习和倾听周围所有人的意见。建筑一直被当做专业来看待，很多建筑师都展现得无所不知，但实际上你不可能知道所有问题的答案。你的工作应该是倾听倾听再倾听，在确保你真的听进去之后，再努力去把这些想法融汇在一起。我深知我的任务并非只是成为一个创造者，而是把这些不同的想法聚在一起并将其变为现实。我所认为的成功是去做一些足够特别的事情，因为我相信所有人在某种程度上都是特别的。人们都喜欢待在能够让自己感觉到独特、充满能量和有价值的地方。我要做的就是用不同的方式去设计建筑和空间，让人们发现自身的存在是独具意义而非渺小或不重要的。

Architecture is so complex, because you’re needing to think about so many things from a very big strategic perspective, also to the very physical, because we touch architecture, we touch the doors, we run our hands along the balustrades. I think that for too long architecture has been seen as the most intellectual art. And I believe it’s both intellectual as well as hyperphysical. And so, I am interested in the emotion you get from the physical experience and try to use myself as data in a way, I try to tune in when we are designing. We have intellectual conversations, but we also have really emotional conversations. I’m torn between trying to be a rational person, but also be a really emotional person, because one of the key things about humans is our emotion, and that’s one of the things that I think is the root of our creativity and the root of our magic. But architecture can deny emotion a lot, you can get very dry ways to be with the complexity and legal responsibility of architecture. It’s so massive, and it can be something where we celebrate “clever, clever and clever” rather than sometimes needing to balance that with “feeling, feeling and feeling”.

The other side is the importance of learning and listening from everybody around you. Architecture has been a profession that often you hear architects and they sound like they’ve got the answer to everything in the world, and that’s what I’m very aware of; it’s that you don’t have all the answers, but your job is to listen and listen and listen, and then try and make sure that you’ve heard and then see whether you can bring together those thoughts. I’m aware my job is not to be a singular creator, but in instead, my job is to pull ideas together and help them to happen, because success for me is doing something that feels unique and special, because I believe we all are in a way special. Nobody wants to be in a place that reminds you that you’re not special, it’s a simple human quality. When you’re trying to make somewhere that will help people feel empowered, feel valued, there are different ways you can design buildings and spaces, to celebrate us or to make people feel that they are not smaller, and not that they don’t matter.

▼Heatherwick Studio与BIG事务所合作，将完成谷歌位于加州的两处新园区（Bay View园区和Charleston East园区）。Heatherwick Studio is collaborating with BIG on Google’s new campus in California. Across two locations (Bay View and Charleston East)（点击这里查看更多 Link to the project） © Heatherwick Studio

▼谷歌位于英国伦敦的King’s Cross新园区，同样由Heatherwick Studio与BIG事务所合作设计。Google King’s Cross, London, United Kingdom, also designed by Heatherwick Studio in collaboration with BIG © Heatherwick Studio

在我成长的环境，我的家人也一直在教会我如何平等地对待每一个人。我的祖父是一位充满理想的共产主义作家，他非常热衷于发掘每个人的创造力。我的父亲也是如此。因此我从不觉得自己在创造力方面有任何权威性，我希望有越来越多的人可以一起为我们现在日趋乏味的建筑世界重新找回创造力。不过，这并不意味着我们要去做那些看上去很疯狂的建筑。在历史上，我们建造了数以百万计的建筑，它们充满趣味、细节和精致的工艺，它们让人类感到自豪。现在也同样如此，我们要让尽可能多的人为自己的劳动成果感到自豪，不论是设计和建造建筑的人，还是驾驶货车的人——生命如此短暂，我们应当为人们正在做的事和他们的生活方式赋予尽可能多的快乐。

我想历史交给我的重要一课是，越是慌乱的时候，就越不能失去人性。欧洲在二战后出于慌乱建造了大量非人性化的住宅，然后我们又花了数十年将其毁掉，制造了巨大的问题。身为人类，我认为我们需要，尤其是在充满混乱和危机的时期，更需要怀有对希望的体察。因为希望让我们更有人性，从而更加远离战争和不公。我们周围总是充斥着巨大的成本压力，所以我们总是有理由去为制造那些不人性化的事物辩解，但在我看来，越是在这样的环境下，我们就越需要为人性化而付出努力。

And my family around me have always been interested in how you treat everyone equally. My Grandfather was a very idealistic communist writer in the UK and he was really passionate about seeing creativity in everybody and the same with my Father, so I don’t feel any monopoly on creativity. In a way, my hope is to encourage many people to make the world of buildings that has become so uncreative, more creative, but that doesn’t mean doing crazy buildings. In the past, there were millions and millions of buildings built. They were interesting had detail, craftsmanship and people were proud and you could feel that whoever made that was proud. And you want the people who make it, who engineer it, who design it, who drove the lorry to feel proud how do you make as many people feel as proud as possible? Life is short, and that’s one of your jobs to try to give as much joy as possible to people in what they do and how they live their lives.

I think that one of the biggest lessons that I feel history has taught me is that you must never lose the humanity while you are panicking. I think after the second World War in Europe, we sort of panicked and built huge amounts of housing that was inhuman, we’ve then been spending decades destroying it again. We made enormous problems. I think as humans, we need to have, even, in times of crisis, we need signs of hope more than ever, because they help us to be more human, and therefore be less likely to fight and feel that the world is unfair. There were always huge cost pressures around us. It’s really easy to always justify not humanizing things, but I think that in times of crisis, the human is needed more than ever.

▼Thomas Heatherwick和同事们讨论项目，Design review with studio members © Raquel Diniz

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